There’s a reason why critics are calling The Paybacks “an upended Suicide Squad” and that’s because it’s good. Very good. The Paybacks tackles a world where our heroes are forced to quit their dreams in order to pay off the debt that they accrued while chasing them. Sound familiar? *Cough cough college debt cough*
Written by Donny Cates and Eliot Rahal, this book is filled with wry, often absurd, and amazing visual humor. Geoff Shaw‘s dynamic illustrations are anything but lackluster and are exactly what I pictured this universe to look like. And the coloring? My complements to the chef-er, rather, colorist.
The primary focus is on an aging hero named Knight Knight who self-narrates his expeditions and keeps a journal. We see Knight Knight facing his own morality and judgement as he is forced to work alongside his worst foes in order to get his own freedom back. Oh, and his sidekick just happens to be a unicorn named Knight Mare. No Big deal.
One of the most refreshing aspects of this series is that Rahal and Cates tactfully included a queer character-Zoe Hart-who has a life outside of her sexuality. I’m often annoyed by mainstream comics whose entire focus on an LGBTQ character are about them being gay or queer, almost as if being gay is an abnormality. The two fill in the reader in on this by subtle hints and nuances while keeping the focus on her skills.
The Paybacks issues One and Two are available through Dark Horse Comics. I can’t recommend this series enough. Cates and Rahal are a dream team and have created one of the most unique and funniest series on the market today.
I was lucky enough talk to Donny and Elliot about their creative process, working with Dark Horse, and the inspiration of Zoe Hart.
AfterEllen: The illustrations, writing, and coloring all sync up perfectly. Did you know the artists and the illustrator?
Eliot Rahal: Absolutely. They are our friends and collaborators. Lauren has been with Donny and I since the beginning. She did the colors for our first Dark Horse Presents story, Hunter Quaid. Now she has grown to be one of the best colorists in the industry. She is incredible. And Geoff-man, I haven’t known Geoff as long as Donny. But he’s been working with Donny for a while. His art is in total sync with our story. He adds layers and elements that make us look a lot smarter than we actually are.
Donny Cates: Absolutely, when we approached Dark Horse about The Paybacks we really wanted/needed Geoff on board. His acting and ability to set a mood or place a joke is second to none. In fact, the book was supposed to come out alongside Ghost Fleet, another book I did earlier in the year with Daniel Warren Johnson, but Geoff had made a prior commitment already. Dark Horse was way into the book and offered to let us find someone new so we didn’t have to wait and we flat out said no. Geoff is as much a part of the team as we are.
AE: How has working with Dark Horse been? I know you guys have worked with them previously, are you working on any other projects? What can we expect from you two, either individually or a team?
ER: It’s a dream come true. I mean the entire staff, from marketing to editorial, is full of incredibly talented and passionate people. They got behind us in a really big way with The Paybacks. They made us feel like a part of the Dark Horse family. What can I say? I mean this is my first big book in comics and the whole experience is incredibly special. In regards to “other” projects, I am absolutely pursuing that avenue, however The Paybacks is an ongoing series so we get to call them home for a while. In regards to future things, I am working on a Heavy Metal book with Daniel Kibblesmith and Kendall Goode that is slated to hit shelves in the late Spring. Donny and I have a story coming out from Valiant in Unity #25. Plus I’m working on some very exciting collaborations with Christian Dibari, Kelly Williams, and Andrea Mutti.
DC: Yeah I have a few secret things I can’t say much about right now, but my Heavy Metal book INTERCEPTOR comes out in December! Here’s a sweet cover for that one!
AE: There are currently two issues out now, correct? When can we expect to see the next issue?
ER: The third drops November 18th.
DC: Yeah! and we get a glimpse into Miss Adventure’s (Zoe Hart) background! It’s SO cool!
AE: Tell me about the Paybacks-where did the idea or inspiration come from?
ER: Woof. Tough question. Well Donny and I have had this idea for a few years now. We were just kicking it around, and thought it would be fun spin on superheroes. The rest, the deeper look stuff, came when we started to really explore the story. Both Donny and I have, well., a lot of debts. And we know we aren’t alone in that. A lot of people from our generation suffer from these problems. People who just want to live their lives with a little decency. And I guess that really inspired a lot of the writing in this. I mean when we meet our “heroes” they have already lost. They are no longer fighting crime, but working to repay loans. They are literally repossessing other superheroes. They are literally doing the opposite of what they intended to do with their lives. That’s why there is a lot of humor in this book. It’s the only way the characters can deal with their crippling realities. Also… Donny and I like to make each other laugh. So there is that, too.
AE: A lot of the jokes are very visual and tongue-in-cheek. Did these happen organically through the writing and publishing process? Is this something that you guys also work and get input from with the artist?
ER: Donny and I have a rule. If something makes us laugh, we figure out a way to put in. This whole comic, even though it deals with a heavy subject, is also supposed to be fun. We are two best friends playing with a world that we created. Why not have a blast doing it? And as far as art, Geoff can nail a facial expression. In fact, we have cut lines of dialogue because they sometimes ruin the joke that Geoff’s art created. Geoff is honestly one of the funniest people I have ever met. He does it effortlessly. And that comes across in his art. He adds to everything. He heightens and makes everything better.
AE: Were these all ideas that you two had in mind and pre-planned during the writing process?
ER: There were definitely a lot of pre-planned ideas. Donny and I went to Emory, Texas-in Rains County, hence the name Emory Rains-where we did a writer’s retreat for an entire week in the woods. It was weird and creepy but we got a lot of great work done. However, when the time for script writing began a lot of our original darlings and original ideas changed or were cut completely. The story has evolved as we have explored it more.
AE: One of the cool things about this series is that there is a lesbian. Can you tell me about her?
ER: Yes, Zoe Hart, AKA Miss Adventure, is a gay woman. She’s lived a hard life. Zoe is fighter. She fights with herself, and she fights against her situation as an indebted superhero. She’s got a certain sadness that we all have I think. One that lives inside of us all. A darkness that all readers, I think, will be able to connect too.
DC: Yeah, Zoe is one of my favorites in the entire series. She’s dangerous, that one. She has her own motivations throughout the series, kind of a loner in a sense. She’s our Wolverine in a kind of way.
AE: Have either of you written a series with an LGBTQ character before?
ER: This is my first, but I am developing a few series (YES SO MANY ANNOUNCEMENTS TO COME) that feature more. To me it’s important. Many of my friends and family belong to the LGTBQ community. They are a part of my regular life and I love them all deeply. It’s important to me that my stories reflect the real world, even in a totally bonkers superhero story.
DC: Yeah, the main character Trace Morales in Ghost Fleet was gay, it wasn’t something that I set out to do, it wasn’t a statement of any kind, and it was just something that occurred to me naturally. It was weird, I was talking with my wife about the book, and how I was bringing in this Texan FBI woman named Bethlehem Bay and my wife said “Oh, are her and Trace going to be a thing?” and without even thinking about it, I said, “Oh, no-Trace is gay,” and it occurred to me that he had always been that character in my head as I was writing him. I think it’s mentioned all of one time in the entire book, it’s just not a big deal, not in the explosive, “Hey, look-we have a gay character!” way. Does that make sense? Sometimes people are gay, and guess what? It’s not that big of a deal.
AE: I loved that her sexuality is like just a part of who she is, but not who she is. How did the decision that she was a lesbian come about?
ER: It was never a decision. She was always gay. I know that sounds weird to say. But when we started writing her character and exploring her, the question of her sexual orientation answered itself. It was a natural fit. Zoe is a lot of things, but she is always herself. And when writing a character like that it’s almost as if they are making their own decisions… telling their own stories. Or at least I’d like to think that. But then again I might be full it!
DC: This kind of goes back to what I was saying on Ghost Fleet with Trace. What I found really interesting was people in interviews or on Twitter or whatever asking me “Why did you make the decision to make Trace gay?” and my reaction was always “Why didn’t you ask me why I made other characters straight? Where were those questions then?” The bottom line is, in the future I want my children to grow up in, someone’s sexuality should not be a basis on how you judge them. It just shouldn’t be a factor. We are sadly not in control of the real world’s future, but we damn sure are in control of the world inside this book. And in the books we write, it’s not a big deal. The Paybacks is about a lot of things, but an absolute rule that we’ve stuck to is: everyone is invited to our party. No matter what color, religion, sexuality or background, you can come and hang out at the Paybacks party. It’s where all the cool kids are anyway.
AE: I noticed that there are a lot of subtle hints about her sexuality-was this on purpose?
ER: Now that was on purpose. Mostly because we didn’t want to make being gay a plot point. It’s part of her story, yes. Zoe is a gay woman, yes. But she is also a superhero. She is also a friend. She is also a former citizen of Detroit. She is many, many things. And to tell her story by boxing her into one label is unfair. People are subtle, and have many layers. We owe it to her to tell her story the way it deserves to be told.
DC: That’s as on purpose as anything regarding these characters is. We give little hints here and there to the background of many characters. Night Knight is afraid of the dark for example, or Soviet Nunchuck has a VERY complicated past. It’s just little pieces of what makes these people who they are. The fact that Zoe is gay is a part of who she is, but like Eliot said, i wouldn’t call it a plot point any more than Bloodpouch being straight is.
AE: Do you mind sharing any of her backstory? Or can we expect to find out more of her in the upcoming series?
ER: It will be difficult tell you any more about her without spoiling the story. However, yes, Zoe will be staying with us for a while. I mean, she’s a total badass. How could she not?
DC: Issue 3 will take care of a lot of that. She’s not the most open person in the world due to her upbringing and status as a hard as nails fighter. But, yeah, in issue 3 we’ll get a glimpse of where she came from.
AE: Can you give us any more insight about this character that you would like your fans to know?
ER: Don’t piss her off.
DC: I think my favorite thing we’ve written about her so far was her introduction in the recap page of Issue 3. “Pretty in the way a mushroom cloud is pretty.” Zoe is nothing to play around with. She’s terrifying.
Follow Eliot Rahal (@eliotrahal) and Donny Cates (@DONCATES) on Twitter and Instagram (@eliotrahal, @dcates).
