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Interview With Zero Chou

Photo credit: The 3RD Vision Films

Out director Zero Chou is one of the few openly lesbian filmmakers in the world, and the only one in Taiwan. Her first film, Splendid Float (2004), which was about drag queens, won three of Taiwan’s Golden Horse Awards, including Best Taiwanese Film of the Year. Her second film, Spider Lilies (2007), won the Berlinale Teddy Award for Best Queer Feature, and comes out on DVD in the United States on May 6.

Chou’s next film, Drifting Flowers, which premiered at the Berlinale in February 2008 and will be screening at festivals this year, brings together three loosely connected stories about sexuality and gender. It stars newcomer Chao Yi-lan, a Taiwanese acting student who brings an authentic, natural butch presence to the screen.

Last month, I spoke to Chou with the assistance of a translator, and we talked about Taiwan’s lesbian community, her own coming-out story, and her dream – with her partner, Hoho Liu – to make six LGBT films overall.

AfterEllen.com: You started out working as a journalist; what drew you to making movies? Zero Chou: Even though when I graduated from college my first job was as a journalist, in my heart I always knew I really needed to be creative. Working with words, for me, was too easy. I wanted to have a much more creative and challenging career, so somehow I chose filmmaking [laughs].

AE: What drew you to the story for Spider Lilies? ZC:At that time I wanted to make a movie about young people. So there would be tattoos, webcam girls – young people were often involved in these things. … So these two things became the topic of the film.

AE:Was it difficult to get funding to make this movie, given its subject matter?

ZC: Because this was my second movie – usually it’s very difficult for young directors to get funding – I was able to apply and get some government funding. Of course it was not enough. The government grant covered about 25 percent. For the remaining 75 percent, of course, I had to find a way to get investors.

AE: For the government grant, did they know about the lesbian story line? ZC: Of course they knew [laughs].

AE: The Taiwan government is supportive of this? ZC: This funding is awarded by an independent review board of experts. The review board decides which screenplay is good and decides on the merit of the story.

Chou (left) with Rainie Yang of Spider Lilies Photo credit: The 3RD Vision Films

AE: Tell me how you came to cast Rainie Yang and Isabella Leong in the movie. ZC: I first selected Rainie Yang, but afterward I realized that finding another person who could play opposite her was very difficult, because Taiwan’s young women are all made up to look very cute and pretty, but none of them are sexy in a more masculine way. So since I couldn’t find anyone in Taiwan, I went to Hong Kong to find someone.

AE: How did they feel about the lesbian story line when they were cast? ZC: I asked them to read the screenplay first, and if they were interested, then we could continue talking. They were very interested. I felt that it was only in this situation that we could cooperate and work together. Actually, Isabella had been looking forward to acting in a gay film.

AE: Oh, why? ZC: Because before doing Spider Lilies, she had acted in a lot of rather trashy movies in Hong Kong. She told me she had been waiting for an opportunity to act in an art movie, and if she had the chance to play a lesbian role, then she would be very happy.

Photo credit: The 3RD Vision Films

AE: The film did quite well at the box office in Asia. How did its success affect your life? ZC: It did not have a great effect as far as my creativity went, but because it was successful and made some money for the investors, it made the next steps down the road somewhat easier.

AE: I believe you worked with your partner, Hoho Liu, on this film; what was it like to work with her? ZC: We are very good partners, no matter whether in life, in work or emotionally. We have a dream – we would like to be able to make six lesbian films in our lifetime.

AE: Oh, that’s wonderful. ZC: Because, you know, the gay and lesbian rainbow has six colors – red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple. The color of Spider Lilies is green; my first film, Splendid Float, was yellow; my most recent film [Drifting Flowers] is red. So I have already done three colors.

AE: Do you know what the other three films you want to make will be? ZC: Since we have already made three lesbian films in a row, we felt we should stop for a while and not immediately go on to more. Because many people have said, “Since you are lesbians, are you only able to make lesbian films?” Of course not!

In the next three years I will make several films that are not about gay or lesbian themes, then I will come back to make the other three.

AE: How long have you and your partner been together? ZC: Eight years.

Chou and Liu Photo credit: The 3RD Vision Films

AE: I’m not too familiar with the status of gay people in Taiwan; can you tell me how gays and lesbians are perceived in Taiwan in general? ZC: Under law, of course it has not advanced to the state where same-sex marriage is accepted. Society is comparatively open, but there is still a very great deal of pressure from families. Since we are Chinese people, families’ opinions have a great deal of influence. Often, families find it difficult to accept gays and lesbians.

AE: When did you come out? ZC: 1998.

AE: And did you come out to your family then? How did they react? ZC: They were very surprised at first because when I was younger I had boyfriends. But I told them it had not been at all easy to finally find real happiness, and I could prove to them that I was correct to take this path in my life, and they shouldn’t worry about me.

It was just like that [laughs]. And they had to accept it.

AE: Of course [laughs]. I wanted to ask you about your latest movie, Drifting Flowers. What was your inspiration for writing this movie? ZC: This movie and Spider Lilies – I wrote these two screenplays at the same time. Because my first screenplay, Splendid Float, was a story about drag queens, afterward many lesbian friends asked, “Why aren’t there any movies about us?” [laughs] So I said, “Give a moment and I’ll write one.” So I wrote two screenplays.

Spider Lilies got funding from the government first, so I shot that one first. So after that, I made Drifting Flowers.

AE: I have heard that there is quite an active butch/femme community in Taiwan, and some of that is in Drifting Flowers. Can you tell me more about that and why you put that in the movie? ZC: Right. Why did I have to make Spider Lilies as well as Drifting Flowers? Because in Spider Lilies, the distinction between the butch and femme characters was not very clear. But in Drifting Flowers, the main character was actually a very typical butch. For example, she didn’t like having female breasts, and she bound them.

There are very few movies in which the way butch women feel about their bodies is discussed or actually shown at all. So Drifting Flowers has a more humanistic, realistic style, not quite the same as the style of Spider Lilies.

Serena Fang (left) and Chao Yi-lan inDrifting Flowers

AE: Chao Yi-lan, who plays the main butch character, makes a very strong impression in the movie. Can you tell me a little about how you came to cast her in that role? ZC: Because she herself is a very typical butch. She is a student in the drama department at Taiwan National University of the Arts. … After some training, she was able to be very natural in this role.

But in Spider Lilies, I wanted a more beautiful-looking butch, not a realistic butch, so I found Isabella Liang.

AE: For me it was really great to see Chao Yi-lan. I really enjoyed it. You don’t often see that kind of role. ZC: Yes, she’s very sexy, very natural.

AE: You are one of very few openly lesbian Taiwanese filmmakers – in fact I don’t know of any others. Do you know of any others? ZC: Openly lesbian? There aren’t any other openly lesbian ones. There are a great many closeted ones [laughs]. I also don’t know why they are not out.

AE: How does it feel to be the only one? ZC: I can’t go around with a mask on – faking it is very tiring. When I was a journalist and people would ask me, “Are you or are you not?” I would lose patience and say: “If I am, I am. Don’t keep asking!” [laughs]

AE: Do you feel any responsibility to speak for lesbians in Taiwan? ZC: At first I thought there wasn’t any question of responsibility, because I was only speaking for myself. Then later I found it was not that simple. So whenever there are LGBT events or parades, people are always asking me to go and appear and speak, and I never thought it would be so complicated.

AE: [laughs] True. Are there any Western lesbian films that you’ve seen that were influential to you as a person or as a filmmaker? ZC: Let me see. There are many good films, but at the moment I can’t really think of anything that has had a particular influence.

AE: How about television? Do you get The L Word in Taiwan? ZC: Oh, yes! I’ve seen some of it. It’s very popular in lesbian circles in Taiwan. I even asked Isabella and Rainie to watch The L Word as part of their homework. I have only seen a couple of the episodes myself – I haven’t seen it all – but we couldn’t find enough lesbian films to give them for research, because there are too few of them.

AE: That’s why your movies are important. ZC: [laughs] Really? OK, I will finish making all six colors!

AE: Do you have anything you’d like to say to the Chinese-American lesbians who are watching your films? ZC: You know, my films cannot be shown in mainland China, so my films have all been pirated and shown underground. I heard that in 2007 the pirated version of Spider Lilies was ranked No. 5 in sales among underground movies. Of course it didn’t do us any good financially, but I’m glad more people could see them.

AE: I guess maybe you didn’t understand my question – I wondered whether you had anything to say to Americans watching your films. ZC: As far as I know, for many Chinese Americans, the pressure from their family is even stronger.

AE: Oh, yeah. ZC: If my films can help our gay and lesbian friends to connect with their families, that would be something I really would want to do.

Invaluable translation assistance by Catherine T. Lo.

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