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Interview with Mary Gauthier

Louisiana native Mary Gauthier (pronounced go-SHAY) had several dramatic pit stops along the way to becoming a critically-lauded singer/songwriter. She came out as a teenager and ran away from home, spent her 18th birthday in jail, went to rehab, enrolled in Louisiana State University as a Philosophy major, attended culinary school, and then opened the first cajun restaurant, Dixie Kitchen, in Boston. The wild tales and rambling journeys make for great storytelling, and Gauthier has done just that since she began her songwriting career at the age of 35.

Gauthier put out four acclaimed albums (Dixie Kitchen, Drag Queens In Limousines, Filth and Fire,and Mercy Now) over the course of five years, and this week released her fifth record, Between Daylight and Dark, to rave reviews. She is currently on tour in support of the record, but recently spoke to AfterEllen.com about making the record, her songwriting process, and why she prefers Southern gentility to the alternative.

AfterEllen.com: When did you start performing your new songs from this album?

Mary Gauthier: I work them into the show after I write them, just to see if they’re gonna hold up. Part of the process for me is getting them in front of people and seeing how the songs are working. So I’ll start bringing new songs into the set list right away, in fact, I’m already moving in new songs that aren’t on this record.

AE: Have you ever made a point of specifically including gay press into your publicity rounds, or is this the first time?

MG: I think we did it with Mercy Now. And they signed me as an openly gay artist, and we’ve never been shy about it. If there’s been any resistance it’s because I’ve been characterized as country, and the gay market for country … there’s a couple of guys, but not many. Historically, it’s been perceived as a homophobic market, but I’m not country. I’m not country at all. I love country music and put some country songs into my work because I love it. But really, if I were to characterize myself, I would say that I’m a folk singer.

AE: I would have said Americana, because it blends folk, country, and rock.

MG: Well, it’s a very inclusive genre, which is problematic because it means you don’t know what it means. It includes Charlie Daniels and Solomon Burke, I mean, this is a genre? (laughs)

AE: Do you think the fact of that inclusivity and diversity makes it easier to be an out artist in that realm?

MG: I don’t know. I haven’t had a problem being gay. If people have a problem with me being gay, they don’t tell me about it.

AE: You’re not one of those people who had a big coming out event, because you were never “in.”

MG: Isn’t that cool, to be a part of that generation where you don’t have to come out because you were never in?

AE: It is, but it’s not just generational. There are artists your age or younger who haven’t had that experience. It’s also a choice. We’re you advised against being out when you first started in the industry?

MG: Oh I don’t take advice. (laughs) It was just never an option. I’ve never not been gay, so I think I’m very, very comfortable with that part of me. I mean I’ve got lots and lots of reasons to be in therapy, that’s just not one of ’em! I’ve dealt with that. I dealt with that in high school. I’m comfortable with it, and that puts people at ease.

AE: You started making music at age 35, which is later in life compared to a lot of other artists. And it’s pretty hard to mess with someone when they are 35. They know who they are, they’re not going to stop being who they are. I wonder if that — in addition to your personality, of course — had something to do with it being a nonissue.

MG: That’s part of it. Being older, having owned businesses, own my home. But I think if I had started earlier it would have been the same. Having dealt with it in high school changes things. If you can survive that and not kill yourself, being a gay adult is nothing. But being a gay kid is a son of a bitch! Being a gay 15-year-old in the 1970s, in Louisiana … that was the thing to survive.

When I got the record deal I had dinner with the guy that runs the company, and I said, “Now you know I’m gay.” And he said, “Yeah.” I said, “And you know I’m out.” And he said, “Yeah.” And I said, “And you know that’s not gonna change, right?” And he said, “Mary, thank God for you. Do you know how many gay artists I have that lie about it? That’s the worst thing.” The record company doesn’t want me to lie. They choose to lie. Nobody tells you to lie. I don’t think people are aware of just how much people don’t give a shit about you being gay. It’s boring. Let’s talk about something interesting!

AE: I’ve never really understood how those artists who are singer/songwriters and who are working with autobiographical material very openly all the time can do that separation of “Oh I don’t talk about that. That’s personal. This is business, us talking about this music.”

MG: I think it’s internalized homophobia, though I don’t want to put labels on other people’s struggles and beat them with that when they’re already in pain. I’m not gonna do that. But I know for me there’s been all kinds of internalized homophobia that I’ve had to deal with and the layers of it are astonishing. Even when it comes to being an over-achiever, it’s like I gotta be better than to be equal. But that’s bulls—, it’s homophobia. You think of it as ambition or something, but there’s a driving force behind it that doesn’t feel like ambition. It feels like competition. There are lots of levels to that, it’s a complex thing.

AE: Do you ever play gay venues or gay and lesbian festivals, and do you notice a significant lesbian presence in your fan base?

MG: They are finding me, and I’m excited about that. But I’ve tried to play the gay festivals and they don’t want me. Because I’m “country” they don’t like me. I don’t know what it is! I’ve applied to [the] Michigan [Womyn’s Music Festival] and to those cruises. And I have all the rejection letters. The answer is “no.”

AE: And yet you just told me that you consider your music to be “folk.” Jeez, if that’s not lesbian, what is?

MG: Maybe it’s not. I don’t sing “gay” songs, I’m way past that. I’m a songwriter that’s gay. I want the emphasis on the right syllable here. I don’t make an issue of it. I don’t care if people are gay or straight. Most of my friends, I pick ’em because of who they are, not who they sleep with. My friends are my friends because I just like ’em. Their sexuality is just completely incidental. As a kid, I had to have all gay friends because I was so afraid. I’ve grown older and less and less do I do that. I’m picking people for a different reason. Out of the ghetto and into the real world! And we’re worthy. We have the right to be out there and so many people have led the way. Look at Ellen. She’s not a gay comedian. She’s a comedian that’s gay.

AE: It’s odd to me that you would have to write songs specifically about being a lesbian in order to play a festival. You’re a lesbian, you’re singing about your life. Doesn’t that qualify as lesbian music?

MG: Pigeonholing keeps you in the ghetto. I like the ghetto, I have lots of friends there. But I don’t want to live there. I want to play everywhere. And if were just to play in that one particular place, it would limit my ability to connect to everybody.

AE: Your influences must be pretty varied.

MG: Yeah, it has to do with the heart and soul of the work. Hank Williams, Woody Guthrie, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan and Ferron all in the same breath, and it makes sense to me.

AE: Regarding your new album, what was on your mind when you were composing the songs, and what tone did you bring to the experience of recording this album?

MG: Here’s my process. There’s an inspiration, a spark of something that comes across my mind and my heart, and I feel like there’s something I need to say. And maybe it’s wrapped around a word or a phrase or a title, and then I start to try to open it up bigger and see what’s in there. And then I chase down words, to get to the right words to express it. Then I have my guitar in my hand and I’m trying to find the notes to emphasize the words and compliment the feeling. And eventually I end up with a song, and then over a couple of years I end up with enough songs to make a record. So it captures moments of my life and moments in American history really. It captures our time, hopefully.

Then you put it together and put a record out and it’s a body of work. And eventually, looking back, I’ll be able to see what it all means. But I’m still in the microscopic part of making sure it was all put together right. It’s a lot of little decisions, hundreds of thousands of little decisions, to make it come together. Usually, I get the big picture after all the press comes out. The journalists are able to put into words what this means. I don’t know that. The cumulative effect, I don’t know that. I think a lot of my perspective comes from the overall impressions of journalists and fans. Isn’t that backwards? It should be the other way, but I don’t have an intentionality. I’m trying to find the truth and I’m trying to find a way to express my inspiration, but I don’t have the ability to know what all of that means. You can’t write in the big picture, you write one word at a time.

AE: Was Between Daylight and Dark recorded live in the studio?

MG: Yeah, I played the songs in front of the band, then everybody went and took their places and we all played together. Then we played together again and after four or five times we had it—with the tape rolling each time…We managed to make the record in about four or five days.

AE: Would you prefer to record live?

MG: Oh, hell yeah! More spontaneity, more authenticity, better all around. I don’t have a lot of patience for the studio. I don’t want to get it perfect, I want to get it real. And doing it this way, if I came in today and did it with the same band, it would still be a completely different record. You’re capturing a moment in time. It captures a performance, it’s not a construction project.

I never had the confidence as a singer to do it this way before. I’d have to sing a song 30 times to try to get … I’m not a great singer, I was always insecure about my voice and I’ll go over and over and over again trying to get it where I could not flinch when I heard it back. With this, you don’t get that chance. You sing and that’s it. So it’s real and raw, and it took five records for me to get comfortable enough to do this.

AE: How is it that someone that doesn’t have that much confidence about themselves as a singer says “I want to be a singer/songwriter?”

MG: Well because if I don’t sing it, who would? I don’t really have a choice. I know I’m a writer, but the singing part, I had to grow into that part.

There was no way I could be a writer and not a singer because of the kinds of songs I write. Who in the hell’s gonna sing a song called, “Drag Queens in Limousines.” That’s a country song! I knew I had to sing my songs if they were gonna be sung. They’re not marketable. I have to be the one to sing ’em.

Even for my favorite songwriters, it would be a problem for them. Look at Neil Young. Who would sing those songs? He’s gotta sing ’em. And his voice is quirky as hell but we love it.

AE: Men are really allowed to sing all kinds of ways, ways that are not conventionally “pretty” or melodic, but it’s rare that a woman gets away with that.

MG: Patti Smith would be the forerunner for this kind of out there singing for a woman. Patti Smith is the hero, I think. And what a hero of mine she is. It takes courage. That’s why she’s a hero, she’s just so damn brave. It takes courage to go out there when you know that your voice is not something that people are used to hearing, and they’re not conditioned to listening to it, and so you know you’re gonna strike them as odd and not as a “real” singer. To most people, a “real” singer is Celine Dion.

So I’ve got the right voice for my songs.

AE: You wrote, “Can’t Find the Way” about Hurricane Katrina. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

MG: I don’t really remember writing it so much. I was trying to capture the devastation, the feeling of what it must have been like to have gone through that. And I hope I got it. I tried to find the voice there ’cause I didn’t go through that. I was in Nashville. Actually, I was in Hawaii when it happened. And yet those people are so familiar to me. Those are my people. And you can really only tell the story well from the first person. I know that. I know that because that’s what Woody Guthrie and Bruce Springsteen taught me. One man’s story, one woman’s story. And that’s how you tell the whole story. If you try to tell the whole story, you end up with a bad song.

That’s why it’s one person telling what happened that day. And then it gets a little big in the end. That song was not easy, it took me quite awhile to find that voice. Finding that character’s voice was the hard part. Who is this guy and how would he say it? I could be a good writer, but I want to be a great writer. So then I’ve got to move past the personal and into the — past the “me” and into the “we.” It’s mandatory if you want to be a great writer.

AE: Your music has been described as “Southern Gothic,” does that term resonate with you?

MG: Absolutely! If you were to compare me to Flannery O’Connor, I would just love it. That’s exactly what I’m aiming for. And that’s my world view.

AE: How does your Southern heritage impact your taste in music, or the way you make music?

MG: I grew up with AM radio, so it was either country or Jesus — that’s all there was! And coming from the South is profound, and it’s a very different part of the world. I think Southerners in particular are fond of their stories and have a history or storytelling. There’s just a damn darkness down here, there’s a lot of secrets, there’s a lot of aunts in the closets. The South is very rich for storytellers. The first thing I did when I could was get the hell out of the south, and now looking back I’m so glad that I’m from the South. Eventually, getting older, I came back. I came to Nashville in 2001, but I didn’t’ understand the relevance of the South until I started to write. And then I realized that I’m so glad I’m from the South because the stories are so rich. I’m glad that this is where I grew up.

I have a Southern world view. I think people should be nice to each other. I believe in social niceties, whether you mean it or not. I don’t want a door slammed in my face. At a four way stop I appreciate when a person lets me go in front of them. It still rattles me when people slam on their horns and are aggressive in traffic. I like gentility. I like the social graces of the South that are still here but completely gone in other parts of the world. And I don’t care if it’s sincere or not. It just makes it easier when you walk into a store and someone smiles and says, “Hi” instead of “What the f*ck do you want?”

AE: Where do you want things to go with your music career?

MG: Oh I don’t’ know. I’m just following it around, seeing where it’s gonna take me. I don’t have any specific goals. I just want to continue to play and write and do my best work. Whatever happens out in the world with it, I don’t have any control over it, I don’t plan it. I have good people, I have a great record label, a great manager. I’m going to be signing a new deal with a great publisher. So I have good people around me and there bound to make good things happen, so I just need to keep writing and keep my best work ahead of me, not behind me.

For more information, check out Mary Gauthier’s myspace page or her official website.

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