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In celebration of queer lady friendships

In celebration of International Women’s Friendship Month, we, Lucy Hallowell and Valerie Anne, interviewed each other to examine our own friendship, and discuss what friendship means to us-specifically, what it means to be two queer lady friends. We “met” in the AfterEllen Huddle, became internet pen pals, and before we knew it we couldn’t remember NOT being friends.

Let’s talk about what is important to us in terms of friendship.

Lucy Hallowell: Loyalty, sense of humor, patience, kindness.

Valerie Anne: It’s really important to me that I feel comfortable with someone, and that they are genuine with me and kind to others, that they make me laugh and at least are somewhat amused by my attempts to make them laugh, too. Yes, I know I basically took what you said and put it in sentence form, but YOU TOOK ALL THE GOOD ONES. (Or, probably, we look for the same things in our friends and that’s why we’re here writing about friendship together.)

How did we meet?

LH: I am pretty sure we “met” in an AfterEllen Huddle email. Is that right? Valerie will correct me (she’s really good at that). So we kind of met that way plus I knew of her being hilarious on Twitter. I’m trying to remember how we first kind of starting chatting over email but I think it was about something she had written. I want to say maybe it was a “hi! Welcome to writing for AE, glad to have you!” kind of thing but I’m not sure.

VA: Starting out with the snarkfest, I see. And yes, I think it was one of those things where I liked your answer to a huddle so replied just to her. Actually I just searched through my gmail and it might have been about Pitch Perfect. We had some Twitter interaction before that, but this was a way to get to know each other more than 140 character at a time. It just kind of snowballed from there.

When we met IRL, was the other person as you expected them to be?

LH: She’s shorter than I expected. I think I always expect people to be my height and she’s basically a pocket gay.

VA: I’M NOT SHORT YOU’RE JUST A GIANT. Eh hem. I peaked early and was the tallest girl in my class for like four years before everyone else shot up and I stayed just shy of 5’4″ so I think I got some kind of complex and I never think of myself as short. When I met Lucy and I had to look up to her literally (I already looked up to her metaphorically) I was a little surprised. She’s also got hella swagger which I wasn’t NOT expecting, but it was something I noticed.

LH: I am dying laughing at this because I am pretty sure my wife was like, “Stop acting like such a tough guy and be yourself” when we met Valerie. It should be noted that she was brave enough to meet me, my wife, and my wife’s sister all at once and was totally cool the whole time.

VA: I was pretty impressed she met me right in the heart of Manhattan in one of the loudest (but bestest) restaurants in the city. That whole thing went surprisingly well. I’m always amazed when online friendships pick up in real life right where they left off.

Describe the other person in three words.

LH: Hilarious. Strong. Generous.

VA: Brave. Loyal. Reallyeffingsmart.

We don’t live close to each other-how do we handle the distance?

LH: I live near Boston and Valerie lives in New York so we are about 4 hours away from each other. I have family that lives in NYC and in New Jersey so I have been able to see Valerie when I am in town visiting them or when she is up here visiting her family.

Honestly, the distance doesn’t affect our friendship that much (maybe she disagrees). All the time I find myself wishing we lived closer so we could hang out and have a beer or watch PLL together or just shoot the shit but the reality is that we don’t so we figure out how to keep up online.

VA: I grew up in Boston and moved to NYC for college, so the distance between the two has always been a non-issue for me. My best friend from high school and I have had the same distance between us for years, so I guess I was no stranger to the email-based friendship thing. When Lucy and I started talking more and more, we overloaded gmail (which, for some reason, doesn’t expect people to be having everlasting email conversations and can only handle 100 emails per thread) and just made it work. There have definitely been times I wished we could be drinking together or that I could come over and play with her kids or flail around in person about this, that or the other thing, but we see each other when we can and I think it’s working out just fine.

We have a bit of an age difference, too. How does that affect our friendship, if at all? Does it add a maternal element at all?

LH: So, I am old and married and have two kids so I guess I bring that perspective to our friendship. But, despite being much older than Valerie, I don’t really feel like there is a big age difference. Our lives are very different-she can stay out late and sleep in and I never get enough sleep courtesy of my kids-but I have never felt like she is super young in the sense of being immature or not knowing stuff. She’s confident and self-possessed and knows who she is in so many ways that she never seems young. Frankly, half the time I am like “hey, what about this? Was that dumb?”

Sometimes I do feel maternal or more accurately protective of Valerie but that’s not really because she’s younger, it’s more because that’s how I am with my friends. I am loyal and protective so if someone is mean to a friend I get really angry.

VA: *ROLLS EYES* She’s not old. She’s older than me and in a different place in her life, her being married with two kids and me being eternally single and not yet having opened the Punky Starshine Home for Wayward Children, so sometimes it does surprise me how well we get along, but I don’t think the age difference has really affected us too much. I mean our personalities are pretty different too, but that doesn’t stop us either. I think we have a similar passion for writing and a very similar sense of humor, so things work out. I do find myself asking her advice a lot but I don’t think it’s because she’s older, I just know she’ll be honest and knows more about things than I do.

And I wouldn’t say I get a maternal vibe necessarily, because I never feel (s)mothered or anything. I don’t have an older sibling but I think the way Lucy is always ready to obliterate anyone or anything that makes me even a little sad is kind of like what having one would be like. It gets complicated when I say something mean about myself because then she yells at me for being mean to her friend.

Let’s talk about some weird things about being a queer lady with a queer lady friend.

LH: I’m ridiculously awkward so this may have more to do with me being me than anything but I always find it a bit awkward to compliment gay friends. I know I have done this enough times that Valerie is probably laughing right now, but I always worry that if I am like “dude, you’re super pretty so go out there and meet some ladies” or whatever that she is going to think I am being gross and hitting on her. So I usually do that awkward thing where I am like, “I AM NOT HITTING ON YOU BUT YOU ARE REALLY PRETTY” and then when she says thanks I make a dumb joke like “So, you agree you’re really pretty?”

She usually laughs at me (which is a staple of our friendship). But sometimes I find that more awkward with girls and even more with queer girls. Can I tell you that you look nice or are pretty (because you are) and not have you think I am a creepy creeper who is married and hitting on you like some kind of Byron Montgomery?

VA: Considering Lucy literally just told me to stop being nice to her because it was freaking her out, I think the whole uncomfortable-with-compliments thing goes both ways for her. I don’t take compliments well (I’m working on it) so when she does try to give me a compliment while also making jokes about it to assure me she’s not hitting on me, I also try to deflect said compliment by making jokes and it’s really a big awkward mess with the word ‘dude’ weirdly thrown around a lot. But that’s what she gets for trying to convince me I look like Charlotte Sullivan (I assuredly do not). I’ve never thought she was hitting on me though, so that’s nice-and I don’t know if it’s just the nature of our friendship from the get-go, or that she’s so obviously head-over-heels for her wife that I never even considered the possibility she would ever hit on anyone else, or that she’s so like Paige McCullers that the last person she would hit on would be the person she wanted to hit on. So she might feel weird about giving me compliments, but I’ve never felt weird about it. But that IS often a tricky component to queer lady friendships, so I’m glad I feel comfortable enough with Lucy that I never feel like it’s weird. (And for the record, I don’t agree, I don’t think I’m really pretty. But that’s what friends are for, to tell you pretty lies.)

What’s the best thing about this friendship?

VA: I really love when we talk about our own stories that we’re writing with each other. It’s nice to have someone really amped about what you’re right, and who you know will love it more the more queerness you put into it. I know that if I ever finish one of my original fiction stories, I will meet some resistance if I try to publish it, because my stories will be girls on girls on girls on but sharing your work with another queer writer is so exciting. It’s also fun to be like, “Hey does this make sense?” or “on a scale of GIMME NOW or please burn that how dumb is this story idea?” etc and know Lucy will be honest with me. (Well, as honest as her kindness will let her be.)

LH: Our friendship is just easy. Valerie has touched on the fact that we aren’t that similar in a lot of ways but our friendship just works. She is always willing to tell me the truth-especially when I’m being a jackass-but is also willing to forgive me when I say something or do something stupid. Beyond forgiving me when I’m an idiot, it’s so nice to be able to talk about writing, TV, books, and every kind of story you can think of. She has read everything I have written and given me encouragement and advice and cheering when I’ve needed it. I trust her with my work and I hope she trusts me just as much. She’s always trying to do a better job and there’s not much I find more inspiring than that.

What queer fictional character is the other is like and why?

VA: Well I already touched on this but Lucy is such a Paige McCullers. She is brave and strong and smart and funny and she has such a huge capacity for love but she’s tough on herself and plays her cards close to the vest until you get to know her and really earn her trust. But then once you’re in that VIP circle of trust, she will champion you when you need it and share the most awesome parts of herself with you and make sure she points out every time you accidentally make a wanky innuendo like I did just there.

LH: Oh, I like this one! If Hermione Granger, Luna Lovegood, and Emily Fields had a baby who looked like Charlotte Sullivan that would be Valerie. She is incredibly smart and not afraid to show it and will fight with her smarts and her courage for things she believes in. She’s got a great imagination and incredible optimism and the ability to see the good in people and has an amazing capacity for forgiveness while also taking zero bullshit. You might underestimate her if you just saw her bright smile and her warmth but she’s stronger and braver than you could ever guess.

Wait, didn’t we have a point to writing this?

VA: I feel like maybe we weren’t originally going to have this just be us saying nice things about each other. What were we doing again?

LH: Right. It was something about queer ladies being friends, maybe?

VA: We’re pretty good at that. But I guess we’re not very good at talking about it? Okay, okay here’s an idea-

What’s one thing about a queer lady friendship that you don’t get in any other kind of friendship?

LH: For me it’s a comfort thing. You can talk about things without worrying that you are going to make someone uncomfortable or have that weird moment of, “Oh, you’re gay?” that you get sometimes when you meet or hang out with straight folks. There’s a shorthand, I think.

You?

VA: I agree. Also it’s fun to go for entire days-long conversations that pass the Bechdel test the whole time. It’s nice to be able to rant and rave about crushes and celebrities without having anyone judge you or roll their eyes at you or take you less seriously because sometimes even my close straight friends do that. It’s just nice to have someone understand. Also what’s fun about meeting people through the queer fangirl community is that there is no coming out. In real life, we have to come out to people all the time. Pretty much every time we meet a new human who we want in our lives for more than the exchange over a cash register. But in the queer online community, it’s assumed you’re queer first. Which is a fun backwards kind of awesomeness. Eventually you might have the lesbian/bi/pan label chat or swap coming out stories but it’s such a weirdly comforting feeling to “meet” people and have them just know.

Do people ever give you a weird look when you talk about having friends you met via the interweb?

VA: If I had a dollar for every time someone gave me a weird look when they ask me where I met someone and I say the internet, I’d be able to buy the internet. I once even had a person-someone I had thought up until that moment was my friend-literally say to my face, “You know they’re not real friends, right?” Like I was talking about the voices in my head or fictional characters or something. I was highly insulted. The friends I’ve found on the internet are the realest friends I’ve ever had.

LH: I am such an anxious person that I often act like a jackass in social situations. Because of this I think I am more myself online than I am sometimes in person.

Your turn-tell us your favorite thing about queer lady friendship!

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