As this season of Rookie Blue comes to a close, we had a chance to chat with Noelle Carbone, an out lesbian writer that has been with the show for five seasons. We talked about what it’s like to be a lesbian voice for TV, what she would like to see happen for Gail Peck, and what we can expect from the new lesbian storyline on Noelle’s other show, Saving Hope.
AfterEllen: As a lesbian, do you advocate for a lesbian character to be part of each show you write for? Or do you not have any say in that?
Noelle Carbone: Oh, yeah. I’m always trying to get a little lady action into every show I work on. Not just because it’s important for me to see my life and my relationships represented; also because TV is a great tool for normalization. Everybody watches TV, even people whose world views are narrower than mine. And if those people see a nice, relatively normal lesbian character or couple on TV and that character or couple are doing nice relatively normal things, they might find their walls coming down ever so slightly.
In terms of advocating for LGBTQ stories, when I was first starting out a producer told me not to pigeonhole myself as a lesbian writer, to stop writing and pitching LGBTQ stories all the time. The advice was coming from a good place but it was kind of a ridiculous at the same time. Do straight writers get asked to stop pushing their “hetero agenda” every time they write straight characters? Anyway, that advice made an impression on me and I started shying away from telling those types of stories. I stopped advocating for LGBTQ representation in the shows I worked on. That’s probably the thing I regret most about those first few years. Of course now I’m not worried about being pigeonholed. I’d be flattered if writing amazing lesbian characters became my “thing.”
AE: Well not only are you advocating LGBTQ stories on TV, you are Canadian and, as you know, I hold a special place in my heart for Canadians! Do you find there is a difference between writing a Canadian show vs. an American show?
NC: [laughs] As far as I can tell the only difference is how many times you have to re-record the actors saying words like “about” and “route.” True story: Season 1 of Rookie Blue, a few of our actors spent a lot of time in the post production sound booth re-recording themselves saying those words. The idea was that Americans can sniff out Canadianisms and the moment they get a whiff, they change the channel. I don’t know if that’s actually true. You’d have to ask an American. Other than that, I don’t think there’s a difference. You tell a great story with great characters and people respond to the material. Doesn’t matter what country they’re in.
AE: If you collectively decide a regular character on the show will come out, how do you determine which character will be gay? What is the process for having the character come out?
NC: In terms of Gail on Rookie Blue, that was all Charlotte. She’d been pitching that Gail was a lesbian for a few years before we actually wrote it into the series. In fact, I think she gave an interview where she actually said, on camera, that Gail was gay. So Tassie and the rest of us were kind of like “Well, I guess we better start writing that story.” But credit to Charlotte, she felt very strongly that this was her character’s journey—that the reason Gail was always so uncomfortable in her own skin, the reason she never quite fit in with the other rookies, was because she was hiding who she really was. That being said, I think it’s very rare that a character’s sexuality was decided by the actor, not the story room.
I like to imagine that other shows have a giant sparkly wheel with headshots of all their characters on it. And at the beginning of a season they give the wheel a spin and whoever the needle lands on—BOOM, gay.
AE: [Laughs] So would you say you are the go-to person if there are any questions about whether or not the lesbian character is authentic?
NC: Yes and no. I write Gail as the person I would be if I didn’t care if people liked me. In a way, Gail is just me without a filter. And way hotter—let’s be honest. That’s independent of my sexuality and hers. It’s not like I’m projecting my personal life onto her. And thank God, because my personal life would not be suitable for television. If you saw me with my wife and kid you’d be like “Wow, that’s a family that really loves each other, but this is some boring shit. I thought they were supposed to cheat on each other and run after each other in the rain while Tegan and Sara plays in the background?!” We don’t do that. Mostly because running in the rain is unsafe. But also because that’s not who I am. I’d prefer to have a dry, rational conversation at the kitchen table. That’s more my speed. And nobody wants to watch that.
Noelle snaps a photo of Charlotte shooting on set
AE: You never know, someone might!
NC: [laughs] Now, when it comes to experiences that are unique to the LGBTQ experience, I’m happy to be the go-to person and weigh in with anecdotes of my fraught past. After all, what was the point of all my college-era crying/yelling/ fighting with “roommates”/drinking/coming out/cheating/being cheated on/running through the streets if I wasn’t going to eventually exploit it for my professional gain?
AE: Well have there ever been times when someone else has written something about/for the lesbian characters and you have had to put them in check, like, “No, that is not accurate.”
NC: I can only remember a couple times where I tried to play the “I’m the lesbian writer so you have to listen to me” card. Once was when Gail pinched the social worker Lauralee’s bum in Season 5/6. It was meant to be an impulsive, out of character act from Gail who’s immediately embarrassed by it. And then Lauralee lets her off the hook by pinching Gail’s bum back. That was how it was written and shot while I was off on “paternity leave.” When I came back to work and saw the cut I was like, “We have to take that out. People are going to think WE THINK that’s how lesbians communicate that they’re into each other—like some bizarre lesbian mating ritual.” They ended up taking the second bum pinch out. And then when it aired, I got a bunch of tweets asking me if Gail’s bum pinch was going to lead to Lauralee pressing sexual harassment charges on Gail. So I actually made it worse. [laughs]
AE: Since Charlotte Sullivan has been a big supporter of Gail being a lesbian from long before she actually came out on the show, was the writer’s room unanimous in the decision of having her come out, or was there some hesitation?
NC: Charlotte Sullivan is an amazing woman. She’s incredibly kind and generous and hilarious and totally bananas in the best possible way. And she doesn’t make a lot of demands. In fact, she makes none. So, when she says she has a gut instinct about Gail, we all listen. As I said, Gail coming out was entirely her idea, and while it took a little convincing, her conviction ultimately persuaded us.
The weird thing about having an LGBTQ character in an ensemble show is that it kind of comes down to math. Say you have six characters and you want one of them to be a lesbian. If there are no other queer women in your ensemble, who are they going to have a relationship with? You end up having to parachute in an outside character to be the love interest. Those outside characters are A) played by guest stars who aren’t always available when you need them and B) not usually organic to your story world so it’s hard to fit them into each episode. And it’s really difficult to develop an authentic shipper-worthy relationship between two characters who are rarely on screen together.
AE: Interesting!
NC: I know that’s not as exciting an answer as “We sit in the story room, gays on one side of the table and straight people on the other and we argue back in forth until a producer comes in and says we don’t have the budget to pay for the houseful of cats that would obviously need to accompany a lesbian character, and that’s how we decide.” But the truth is, a lot of the time it just comes down to math.
AE: As for the Gail adopting a child storyline, was that planned for a long time or was it born of Holly being out of the picture?
NC: If memory serves, the storyline about Gail adopting a child was born from seeing how wonderful Charlotte’s performance was when she first met Sophie. We all saw something there that was special and unexpected. It wasn’t at all related to her storyline with Holly. If Holly had still been in the world, the adoption story may have played out differently and caused different conflict. But it would’ve happened regardless.
And our American viewers can see how that story plays out this Thursday on ABC. It’s the last episode of Rookie Blue I wrote and it’s my favorite. So many great performances, including Charlotte in the adoption storyline.
AE: So when you are writing for that week’s episode, do you find yourself trying to give Gail more lines? Because that is basically what we all want.
NC: [Laughs] Oh, me too. I’m always angling for more Gail because she’s just so damn fun to write. Imagine you could go through the world saying whatever you wanted without fearing the repercussions. That’s what writing for Gail is like. Pure wish fulfillment.
AE: We are all hoping the show gets picked up for another season and if it does, would you rather see Gail navigating through a relationship or single and in the dating scene?
NC: Hmmmm…I think Gail playing the field would be comedy gold. But ultimately what would be more satisfying—because I think it’s what Gail truly wants—is for Gail to find her “person” and to start building her life with that person. Then again, maybe Gail’s already found her person and Gail just needs to convince her to move back to Toronto so they can give it another shot. Not that I have anyone particular in mind. How’s that for subtle?
AE: [laughs] Very “subtle,” Noelle! Now, you also write for Saving Hope. Last season had a kissing scene between Maggie and Sydney. Did these women officially come out as queer?
NC: Last season Waneta Storms—yes, that’s her real name—wrote a gorgeous, heart-wrenching episode of Saving Hope wherein one of the doctors, Sydney Katz, who happens to be an Orthodox Jew, had to deliver a baby for a lesbian couple. And the woman giving birth turned out to be a childhood friend that Sydney outed when they were kids. That girl was then shunned from their community leaving Sydney to grapple with her guilt—and her own internalized homophobia. In the episode, Sydney shares that struggle with her fellow doctor, Maggie, and the two ultimately find themselves in bed together. (Well, it was a cot. But you get the picture.) I wasn’t in the story room at the time but I thought the writers did a wonderful job with that story. Sydney ultimately accepted her sexuality and broke up with her fiancé—the man everyone expected her to marry. And Maggie just kept being Maggie. She didn’t have a giant existential crisis about whether or not being with Sydney that one time made her a lesbian or not.
AE: So can we expect to see more of them or any queer women on this show?
NC: Coming into Season 4, we talked a lot about the Sydney/Maggie dynamic. Unfortunately, the amazing actress who plays Sydney (Stacey Farber) wasn’t available to us at the beginning of this season so we couldn’t really explore that relationship. But we did talk a lot about what it meant for Maggie—whether or not that made her queer. For me, the way it played out on screen last season, sleeping with Sydney seemed like something Maggie did in that moment because she felt a real connection with Sydney. It wasn’t necessarily a sexual awakening that was going to launch Maggie into a series of lesbian romances. Hopefully her schedule frees up because we’d all love to see Sydney back—and see more of her sparky dynamic with Maggie, whatever comes of it.
All that being said, the Maggie/Sydney season 3 story was a lovely, heartfelt, fun, poignant story about sexuality and culture and friendship and connection. I thought it was really beautiful.
AE: Can we count on you to continue to write queer female characters in television?
NC: God, I hope so! Presuming I’m employable after this interview. In all seriousness, it would be an absolute dream if my daughter grew up in a world where race, creed, gender and sexuality were no longer character traits that demand debate and discussion around a story room table. I think we’re a long way off from that but I do think we’re making strides in the right direction. And I have hope that by the time my kid is old enough to watch prime time TV, two girls kissing will be as commonplace as the car commercials that run in between smooches.
Rookie Blue airs this Thursday at 10/9c on ABC. Saving Hope premieres in Canada on Thursday, September 24 at 9PM ET on CTV. You can follow Noelle on Twitter: @noelcarbs
Follow Erin Faith Wilson on Twitter: @erinfaithwilson
